The Media Landscape and the Importance of Critical Thinking: A Candid Conversation with Al Marschke and Jeremy Bruce

Join Al Marschke and Jeremy Bruce on their latest episode of "Saga Media," where they dive deep into the evolving dynamics of media and the pivotal role of critical thinking in today’s information age. 

Drawing from Al's extensive background in the media industry, they offer a rare behind-the-scenes glimpse into the world of news and television. The episode covers a range of thought-provoking topics, including the shift from traditional to social media, the impact of sensationalism and ratings on news reporting, and the importance of discerning the truth in a landscape crowded with diverse agendas.

They explore how media consumption has transformed with platforms like TikTok, allowing individuals to share their stories unfiltered, challenging traditional media's leverage. Jeremy shares personal experiences, highlighting the potential distortions in news reporting and its impact on public perception. The duo also discusses the psychology behind news consumption, why negativity often dominates headlines and the implications of living in what they describe as the safest yet most comparison-driven era in history.

This episode is not just about the mechanics of media but also reflects life philosophies. They touch upon living in the present, retirement, and the quest for a fulfilling life beyond the influence of media narratives. Tune in for a stimulating and enlightening conversation that encourages listeners to question, analyze, and find their truth in the complex media world.

Transcript

00;00;00;11 - 00;00;32;10
Speaker 2
Welcome to an episode of Saga Media. Both Jeremy and I are back on this one again, discussing something that we often talk about between podcasts, both on sometimes different points of view. Sometimes we have the same point of view, but we share information. And I think my background is in media. I worked in television for a number of years, and every now and then I'll share my experience with people on what happened in what I see happening in media today, from how media is and how social media is.

00;00;32;12 - 00;00;51;21
Speaker 2
So in our conversation I brought up talk as an example. So for instance, back in the day when something happened in you in you had a story to tell, a producer may call you and say, Hey, we'd love to hear your side of the story about what happened, and then they would come to you. But that's their way of luring you in.

00;00;51;22 - 00;01;12;02
Speaker 2
We want to hear your side of the story. When they don't, they don't know if they necessarily care, but that's their way of saying, we want to hear your voice. Let's get the truth out. And you feel like you're going to be noble and get the truth out. They just want to tell a story. And for ratings so that they're motivated by by media or by the attention they get from that when now it's completely different.

00;01;12;04 - 00;01;33;23
Speaker 2
So if something happens, for instance, for me, I'm thinking if a producer calls me now and says, Hey, you were part of some big event, you're a witness, we'd like to get your side of the story. Why would I do that? Why would I go on television? Why would I not just go on tik-tok and say, If you want my side of the story, go to my TikTok channel, quote me on TikTok.

00;01;33;28 - 00;01;52;12
Speaker 2
You know why? Why would I waste my time giving them funding from their advertisers when I could get more likes and hits from telling the story the way I want to tell it, knowing that my story is going to be unedited and then my point of view. So what leverage does TV have now.

00;01;52;15 - 00;02;16;19
Speaker 1
In bring up a good point. We off camera, we had this discussion a few moments ago and just off the cuff, you know, that's why I believe smaller channels like ours and ones that are growing smaller and growing large in platforms, a lot of independent media now, because they were able to use Tik Tok and social media and podcast studios, because for years the story got twisted.

00;02;16;21 - 00;02;42;16
Speaker 1
You said that news media reached out. I had a story about 15 years ago. There was a controversy little tax that was added in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, where the Port Authority pension fund was allegedly going broke, allegedly. And so the current county executive down on radio at the time implemented a liquor tax. So he added, I believe it was like one or two or 3%.

00;02;42;16 - 00;03;02;27
Speaker 1
I'd have to go back and actually what it was at the time. But any alcoholic beverage that was sold in restaurants and taverns and bars, and I think at the time we were in giant Eagles and Wal-Marts and convenience stores. Yeah, but we were. And distributors and liquor stores, I believe there was an additional tax. And so and they call it the autoerotic tax for years.

00;03;02;27 - 00;03;10;10
Speaker 1
And I got interviewed and I gave my brief opinion on it and I read it first.

00;03;10;13 - 00;03;11;01
Speaker 2
Who was that?

00;03;11;05 - 00;03;14;06
Speaker 1
Had this this will it made me look like an idiot.

00;03;14;07 - 00;03;14;28
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;03;15;00 - 00;03;20;27
Speaker 1
It really spurns that will people and people are just tired of being lied to in cases of the media.

00;03;20;27 - 00;03;45;13
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the media, they it's not like they deliberately want to lie. They're. They're motivated by getting the attention They're competing with other stations for to win. And if they win, they get more money, more sponsors. It's a business. They're in business to make money and I get that. So if it bleeds, it leads. They say, you know, that's that's how the media works and it doesn't necessarily need to work that way.

00;03;45;16 - 00;04;04;15
Speaker 2
Now, social media is not solving that problem. AT You'd think it would be like the truth comes out, it can be unedited. But now on social media, there are people out there who are not saying what's true. They're running their agenda. So now you have to go back to being critical. Who do I believe in? Who do I now believe?

00;04;04;18 - 00;04;22;15
Speaker 2
So I go through a process when I'm on Tik Tok Personally, there's a couple of people I'll follow, and the reason I follow them is because they produce more receipts than the other side of the argument. And I may follow someone until someone comes up and says, Here's what that person said. They're stitching video with them. Here's the proof that says it's not true.

00;04;22;15 - 00;04;43;16
Speaker 2
So then I start following the person who's most likely right most of the time. If they're right most of the time I'm going to follow them. The problem is, is that if I'm on one side of the fence or the other, like Democrat or Republican and someone says something that's against my team, like if I'm a Democrat, I'm less likely to believe that I want more proof.

00;04;43;16 - 00;05;04;02
Speaker 2
Or I'll say you're just angry. So even if the truth is out there and you find the truth, how much of that truth are you filtering? Because you don't want that to be against your team? No, I'm a registered independent. I'm not obligated to like the past president or the current president at all. I'm not obligated to defend them in any way.

00;05;04;09 - 00;05;24;07
Speaker 2
And that's pretty liberating to me, because if Trump does something stupid, I'm going to say does something stupid. I'm not defending my team. If Biden does something stupid, I'm going to say that was stupid. I'm not defending a team. So to me, being a registered independent is pretty liberating and not have to defend stuff. Stuff that I don't really believe in just because I don't want to look bad for my team.

00;05;24;09 - 00;05;42;00
Speaker 2
What do we believe now? It's almost like that professional wrestling match that I went to and I was videotaping it. The people behind the scenes are like, Where are we in the script? You know what I mean? I don't want to do that. We're what do we believe is is a religious group or what we believe as Republicans, if you have to ask, then you don't have your own belief system.

00;05;42;07 - 00;06;04;05
Speaker 2
So that's where I disconnect from, from media, where I have to be responsible for what I'm taking in and be an unfiltered, critical thinker of data, not just what I want to believe data. I want to be proven wrong. I don't want to be thinking the same thing and be wrong the whole time. Just because I want to hang on to a belief that I stuck with for years and I want to look stupid.

00;06;04;09 - 00;06;26;01
Speaker 1
And that's where, you know, in that case and I want to jump back into the media aspect of it is open minded, critical thinking is exactly right. And so I believe, unfortunately, the majority or seems like the majority does, that they do good on the team. And because, you know, one side's anti-war when they're guys in office, but then when when they're guys in the anti war party of 26.

00;06;26;04 - 00;06;27;21
Speaker 1
Sure it was it was.

00;06;27;23 - 00;06;28;00
Speaker 2
Very.

00;06;28;00 - 00;06;51;05
Speaker 1
Hypocritical. Yeah. And vice versa. You know the the you know, the the fiscally conservative Republicans weren't very fiscally conservative and their guys. And but the thing about the media, too, it comes down to have you seen that clip where they started painting. It was pretty recent. It was about the it was about this information. Right. Right. And so they like pendant.

00;06;51;11 - 00;06;53;25
Speaker 1
They had them to where they're all boxed out. And yeah.

00;06;54;02 - 00;06;55;14
Speaker 2
Every station is saying the same thing.

00;06;55;17 - 00;07;06;19
Speaker 1
Across and they're literally reading the exact same screw up off of the teleprompter. And like real journalism has gone away and that's for people to go to look at. Yes. When you're going be you got to still fact check. It really comes down to logic.

00;07;06;26 - 00;07;23;07
Speaker 2
Yeah. There was something about that clip that was going around, but every TV station was saying the same thing. But I think if you dig a little deeper, there was something more to that than people think. After I have to find out what that was, it was it was positioned to look like we're being fed that now in some cases.

00;07;23;07 - 00;07;44;18
Speaker 2
Yeah, I believe we are being fed stuff that's controlled by, you know, these conglomerates When they deregulated broadcasting, you can own every TV station and radio station in one market, so you rent. But if I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, there was one caveat or that was misrepresented. It's hard to believe that something like that misrepresented because every call letter, every station and they all said the exact same thing.

00;07;44;20 - 00;08;05;00
Speaker 2
But there's something as to why I don't have to look that up. But it was interesting to hear the other side of the story of why I may jump to conclusions like say, that's false. Exactly what I believe. I believe the news media is controlled by somebody and that falls into my arena. I'm inclined to believe that. But I want to if there's someone says, here's why that was really done, I'm open to that, too.

00;08;05;03 - 00;08;28;17
Speaker 1
Absolutely. And it gets on also when we talk to off camera shock value, too, it's not just get in there reading scripts and being a big conspiracy. You have to try to like PSYOP and control people's thought process because that goes on a lot. But even the shock value you mentioned about Joe Dean, right? Legendary weatherman, didn't want to go out and throw the scare tactics of a big storm because he didn't have proof.

00;08;28;23 - 00;08;50;04
Speaker 1
Right. Chief meteorologist. He wasn't going to go out and lie and say that with when it was a 50 50% chance. So the weather part really gets to me, especially in our region, because it is increasingly gotten worse to where the boy that cries wolf right. Had watched a local news station one time pretty recently. And we were it was just as bad storm was coming.

00;08;50;04 - 00;09;13;08
Speaker 1
It literally the dusting was so light that the green grass is still showing or the grass through the snow. But they had a specific specific gentleman on this local channel go out off of the I 79 or 279. And he pointed out and the camera zoomed in to this little like five foot circle spot of where like from the the wind had all right.

00;09;13;10 - 00;09;37;08
Speaker 1
A lot worse. He's like look at these slick spots. Right. And so but you can literally see the green grass or like the hurricane. I mean, man, those are getting really bad, too. And you see not only with like the other ones, but the small things, little things like that is that that creates distrust as well. I believe and and I believe it gets dissuades people from like you're telling you, you're getting the entire state of Florida evacuated right down there.

00;09;37;08 - 00;09;39;24
Speaker 1
It's just a glorified tropical storm that everybody good.

00;09;39;27 - 00;09;54;00
Speaker 2
Yeah. But you got you got to go on the side of safety. If if there's a reason you've got to I would I'd be okay if they said there was a storm coming. It didn't come and it's going to be people say, you said this were going to come, but at least we favored on the side of safety.

00;09;54;02 - 00;10;04;12
Speaker 2
But I think that there's a there's a certain degree that you could say this is possible and here's what happens if you don't make the right decision. But don't don't instill panic in people. I think that's the key to that.

00;10;04;14 - 00;10;08;21
Speaker 1
There is a borderline panic that they do. And so especially with the snow thing.

00;10;08;24 - 00;10;34;15
Speaker 2
I find it I find it recently, not so much a long time ago, but now I would tend to I like local news a little bit better than national news because local news is is sensationalistic, but it's not as bad as national news. National news has become a personality thing. Or they think, I care about your opinion on something.

00;10;34;18 - 00;10;57;22
Speaker 2
And then it's like it's like news entertainment. In fact, Fox News is, I think is called an entertainment company. Every every news outlet is an entertainment company. CNN If if you tune in to CNN, any given minute. Breaking news. Breaking, breaking, breaking every is breaking all day. And it's the same news that breaks all day. Now, here's something that a lot of people don't know.

00;10;57;25 - 00;11;23;02
Speaker 2
When I worked at Channel four, they had some consultants come in and the consultants said every story you read should begin with just in breaking only on four or exclusive. It should lead with one of those. There was no story should be written without that because it it is a sense of urgency. So you could take a waterskiing squirrel and say this just in or breaking.

00;11;23;04 - 00;11;51;24
Speaker 2
What does it mean? Break. It's like it's it's like saying all natural ingredients. What is breaking news? It doesn't mean it implies you're the only one with it. It implies it's happening now. But I could tune in to CNN 5 hours later breaking, and it's still the same news as far as I have 5 hours ago. I'm thinking this is just to sit there and listen to Wolf BLITZER when I have to sit in an office and Wolf BLITZER is up there with that monotone voice saying the same stuff over and over and over every 10 minutes, it just gets mind numbing.

00;11;51;24 - 00;12;11;02
Speaker 2
And then then you see clips of Fox and family in the morning. They're just like a bunch of gossipers. I'm like, That's not news. How is that news that's not in It's not data. It's it's it's an opinion and it's a personality. It's like news theater is what I've been calling it. It's become a profession where I'm selling my personality.

00;12;11;02 - 00;12;15;21
Speaker 2
So I have an ego to feed. I'm not delivering data that's backed up by anything it's.

00;12;15;28 - 00;12;17;07
Speaker 1
Value or.

00;12;17;08 - 00;12;19;04
Speaker 2
Exactly. There's no value in it.

00;12;19;06 - 00;12;52;06
Speaker 1
You know, we've mentioned Patrick David, bed with value tainment. And when he created that, he wanted to create value in his team and on the is entertainment. But it really is a good Newt I don't even he's they've moved into more news but at the beginning it was a lot of value because he did a lot of teaching and that's another thing at least I know with personality and I you know talked to many out there over the years about instead of watching the news where you said it's there's you're feeding an ego and somebody is talking about some kind of breaking news and nonstop, that's really not important.

00;12;52;06 - 00;13;23;02
Speaker 1
It affects your life. The independent sources also seem to teach better as well. Yeah, you learn more. So those are also things that I believe we should that I'm not sure that this is why people have gravitated towards because, you know, I want to learn more. I don't want to listen to how many murders happened in a certain area for the first 11 minutes and then get into with the weather how crappy the weather is going to be or not going to be or, you know, I find and the only thing I was looking forward to is sports.

00;13;23;02 - 00;13;26;04
Speaker 1
And they gave me 5 minutes of that. Right.

00;13;26;07 - 00;13;55;10
Speaker 2
I tell you, I was talking about some people. We sat down at the gym and we were talking about how a newscast goes. And they talk about one guy was saying, I'm watching, I'm watching the weather just to get the seven day forecast of the five day forecast, I go, you know what, it is about the five day forecast, the seven day forecast when they do a weather report, a lot of people don't know this, but when they're in ratings, they you have to win the 15 minutes to get you know, you have to keep people for 15 minutes.

00;13;55;10 - 00;14;14;28
Speaker 2
So if you figure a 15 minutes, if you can get the majority of that 15 minutes, you've won the whole 15 minutes. So it's keep people for more than seven and a half minutes for that quarter hour and you win it. So if you do the math, the second quarter hour is where weather is going to be. But you want to keep them for the whole seven and a half minutes.

00;14;15;01 - 00;14;40;22
Speaker 2
So you have a couple of stories. Weather comes in and I remember we had to as a technical director behind the scenes, I'm working in the control room. We could not go to the five day forecast until after like 20. It was 2130 or something like that that we would I would have my my hand on the control bar, but I could not go to the five day forecast until it was seven and a half minutes past the quarter hour.

00;14;40;25 - 00;14;58;11
Speaker 2
And the producer back there time again, 3 to 1 go to the five day forecast because the five day forecast is what everybody was waiting for at that time. So it was always at the end. It was always like, why am I wait for this? And it always takes sports last. Because in that time, DiNardo got as much weather time and he does.

00;14;58;11 - 00;15;15;14
Speaker 2
You know who else gets four and a half minutes for weather it's sports gets to you know you get some highlights and you're done but that's why that's how manipulative it is. They're not giving you news that favors them. The favors it favors you. It favors them in the quarter, winning the quarter hour. That's why it's in sweeps.

00;15;15;14 - 00;15;34;02
Speaker 2
It's all about there's like February sweeps, May sweeps. November weren't sweeps. Now, this is November one. We're recording this. So this is when you get all the cockroaches in the restaurant, stories come out. That's classic. That comes out now because they don't do any investigative journalism throughout the year. They can afford to get other resources for that. They got one camera or two cameras.

00;15;34;02 - 00;15;57;23
Speaker 2
They can't go out and do investigative reporting. They want to get perp walks that they call a guy, walk from the courthouse, from a cop car. They want to throw comments. And that's the stuff they want to get. But they they they focus on the consumables stuff that makes you angry, not the stuff that really educates you. And so just from years of of watching that and putting lipstick on a pig, I just I just can't find myself to watch news.

00;15;57;23 - 00;16;20;20
Speaker 2
It is so focused on those those sensational, just sensationalistic stories a few times of the year when when the ratings are determined, because that's when the prices are determined for what they charge for commercials. So November is a big time of year. If you win those ratings, if you win those quarter hours of demographic, you can charge a certain amount of money.

00;16;20;23 - 00;16;46;07
Speaker 2
And that's what they're geared on. It's not about attention. We had one case, a news director, who focused on live shots. It was all about live shots and we had to go live. And I heard people talking about this every now. And there's a guy that I know who watches and criticizes news. He goes, I'm watching the 11:00 news and I'm watching a live shot from in front of the police station of an accident that happened downtown.

00;16;46;10 - 00;17;04;03
Speaker 2
Now, why is this reporter in front of the police station? So here's what actually happens. The reporter goes out and does a story throughout the night, comes back to the TV station to write the story and then is told to leave to do a live shot, because the live shot is more exciting. Don't do it from here. Don't do it on the set.

00;17;04;10 - 00;17;18;17
Speaker 2
Do it from a live shot. So they're in the middle of nowhere, freezing to death in front of a police desk because it's a live shot. And live shots go over better than a news desk. So these people are doing stuff for the impression that it's urgent, which is misleading to me.

00;17;18;19 - 00;17;38;12
Speaker 1
Then where you get it. And also on top of that, the national news with misleading is and they've been caught red handed multiple times. And so it's been it's come out not a conspiracy theory where they say you're there live shot shot especially CNN. yeah. And then one was in the Gulf War and 91 is where they first got they had their on set.

00;17;38;14 - 00;17;45;01
Speaker 1
Yeah, he's playing that. There's bombs going off and he's on set or like I believe it was.

00;17;45;03 - 00;17;48;26
Speaker 2
We call those look, life is an influx.

00;17;48;28 - 00;18;10;11
Speaker 1
Of CNN anchors were I believe it was on there were it was after the Sandy Hook shooting and it might have been Anderson Cooper, I believe. And there's video of this or whatnot. But where he was, he said he was on the courthouse steps or the jail, one of those, you know, during the summer. Yeah. Significant place. And then his nose went into the green screen.

00;18;10;14 - 00;18;12;24
Speaker 1
Yeah, you could see that. It was a green screen.

00;18;12;28 - 00;18;24;11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Those are those, those happened from bad decisions and bad people. That's not every TV station and it's not every news director. But the point is they're under pressure to to to be louder than the station next to them right there.

00;18;24;11 - 00;18;41;26
Speaker 1
Right, right. They or like you said, they send a guy out in front of me a decent amount. It's the live shot and and whatnot. And it's just like, I don't know anybody really gives a damn right where they are that are watching. But, you know, it just comes down to, you know, it's a lot of negativity. It comes through.

00;18;41;26 - 00;18;55;13
Speaker 1
And so people don't want to listen. You go ask the regular person and we could go out and we should do a segment one time or re-interview and say, what don't you like about the news? And I would bet that seven out of ten say, well, the first 10 minutes are negative.

00;18;55;18 - 00;19;15;03
Speaker 2
Yeah. The problem with that is that humans are naturally attracted to the negative because that's how they survive. If you're not if if humans were attracted to beautiful things, they'd all been eaten alive because you can't walk through the woods admiring pretty flowers. You have to be looking for what can kill you if you're looking for the bad stuff.

00;19;15;11 - 00;19;34;20
Speaker 2
So humans, they know it's just natural. It's a it's a moth to the flame, which is the problem behind that. It's like it's almost like sugar. We love sugar only because at one time it was so rare that we craved it. Now it's 20 47i have access to. I can't handle all this. My biggest problem with if I don't watch the news, I don't watch any news.

00;19;34;20 - 00;19;54;29
Speaker 2
I get most of my information from people who look like experts or to this point feel like they're experts and I know people who watch a lot of news and their demeanor is very different. So my basic question to people who watch news all day long is how much of that news affects your day? What do you need to know?

00;19;55;01 - 00;20;13;00
Speaker 2
If I turn off the TV for a week, I'm fine. There's nothing I don't need to know what's going on across town. Honestly, I'm not saying I don't care. But now you're throwing something on my table. I have to all of a sudden care about. You're telling me about something that happened in an overseas. It's a bad situation.

00;20;13;02 - 00;20;32;27
Speaker 2
I'm not overseas right now. I can only handle so much information. There's only so much I can do as a human being. If something happens on the in the South hills where you are, there's a huge traffic accident, big fire. I'm like, that's horrible. But I don't need to know about that. It's a shame it happened, but I don't need all this stuff thrown on me like I'm shameful because I don't care enough about it.

00;20;32;29 - 00;20;40;12
Speaker 2
I got my family, my yard in my life. I got to live. I don't need that much information, but people are drawn to it. That's the problem.

00;20;40;15 - 00;20;59;16
Speaker 1
Too. The question I said if we told people, most people would actually kind of give an answer, maybe not as detailed as yours, but like they would have given an answer that it doesn't really that doesn't affect me. And it is and it doesn't make people cold or disheartened, disheartening to to not feel like whatever is going on over there, is it affecting my world?

00;20;59;18 - 00;21;21;18
Speaker 1
You know, you had mentioned about turning the TV off for a week a couple of years ago. I had friends over and I had I think I got a UFC fight. You know, I had some friends in and whatnot and some colleagues came and we did a little party and I thought about it. I said, you know, it's the first time I TV and this is eyewitnesses to this because they were like, You remember every TV on.

00;21;21;20 - 00;21;40;01
Speaker 1
But that was a November fight, I think two years ago on UFC. It was the first time I'd had my television since Easter. Previous. So it was about over six months that I had not turned. I was completely like disconnected because, I mean, here's the thing, not just because I'm disgusted at what's going on. It's that's really not the case.

00;21;40;03 - 00;21;55;27
Speaker 1
It's more of we are fans. So I mean, the weather. Yeah, the weather, right? Yeah. If I'm traveling on business, I'm flying. I want to know where I'm going. Flying into or where I'm going to be at or if I have to drive. But other than that, there are times where I don't check the weather for a week or two.

00;21;55;28 - 00;22;12;19
Speaker 1
Yeah, but I mean, all the information's right out here and I think that plays a part in it. But yeah, you're right where it comes down to. Does it affect me personally in my, my area, you know. Yeah. Getting fulfillment and value from that. Right. And then the people don't trust the media as well. Mean that's another thing it could be going out there.

00;22;12;19 - 00;22;33;28
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think it's going to be tough to trust anything because even if you pull the advertising out and I think social media has proven this, when you have ticktalk out there now, people still thrive attention and they're going to get it no matter what they're going to report. There are people out there reporting about the wars overseas claiming there's World War three coming and there isn't.

00;22;34;05 - 00;22;51;07
Speaker 2
There is no data that supports anything near World War Three, but you can take what's happening and make it look like World War Three is happening and you will get a lot of likes and hits. So it said dopamine where you have to like you got to be a critical thinker. And as far as people saying I don't like negative news, here's the problem with that.

00;22;51;10 - 00;23;08;29
Speaker 2
People will say that you can ask them all day long. I don't like negative news and you can ask them all day long. I don't like Walmart. They're killing the small businesses. But those are the same people who shop at Walmart and are killing the small businesses as soon as they know the right answer to the question. Yeah, it's killing small businesses, but it's cheaper.

00;23;09;01 - 00;23;26;14
Speaker 2
You know, I want to do what's more convenient. I'm leaning toward what's convenient. If someone asked me, Are you getting anything from the news? I hate negative news, but boy, look, an accident just happened and you're rubberneck. You're still watching it. That's the problem. Because you can't you can't unsee it. You can't even look at it because it's you're you're driven towards a natural instinct.

00;23;26;14 - 00;23;32;13
Speaker 2
And so we're abusing ourselves by feeding ourselves this information, knowing it's a vulnerability that we got to watch.

00;23;32;13 - 00;23;44;13
Speaker 1
But I say when you do disconnect that, it's just it's liberating in that I to me personally, I find it odd that people still spend their time watching the news like it's.

00;23;44;13 - 00;23;49;03
Speaker 2
A certain personality. They got to feel like every minute they've got to know more and there's nothing more to know.

00;23;49;05 - 00;24;09;03
Speaker 1
We're like when we are brought up, like the television was there, the television programing was there, but that's kind of where you grow into. But, you know, I think more and more people are getting out of it. But I personally can say that I can't align and I don't understand at this point in my life how somebody sits and watches that every single day.

00;24;09;11 - 00;24;26;09
Speaker 2
I mean, if you sit in and the mood I'm in after I watch it is almost like it's either enraged or depressed. And man, I didn't need that. You know, I feel like, man, I just I just saw a horrible news story about something that's happening overseas and it's now it's affecting me. I can't do anything about it.

00;24;26;16 - 00;24;41;23
Speaker 2
There's no amount of money I can give to stop the war or stop people in Africa or the people in Yemen or whatever. I can't I can't stop that. I know the limits of what I can see. And I sat there one day with my daughter and we're in the backyard and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on.

00;24;41;28 - 00;24;59;20
Speaker 2
I can't think of what the news stories were. And there was deer walking through my backyard. I go, You know the interesting thing about that deer, I don't want to get super philosophical, but I said that deer doesn't see property lines. It's whole. It's all his that deer is not paying taxes. What a life it does. It doesn't see boundaries.

00;24;59;26 - 00;25;17;01
Speaker 2
It doesn't see private property. It doesn't listen to the news. There could be deer suffering on the other side of town. That deer is just looking for somebody. It's got its little deer next to it. It's got the male deer. It's just it's hanging out. It has zero stress, you know? Sure, it doesn't have an extraordinary life, but it doesn't know that.

00;25;17;01 - 00;25;26;24
Speaker 2
So how simple is it if you just unplug and stop and stop following all of this shit you really don't need? These deer are surviving without all this stuff.

00;25;26;27 - 00;25;33;18
Speaker 1
It's funny you bring that up because I've had conversation and I said that and I can honestly say I'm like, Man, you know that deer doesn't know.

00;25;33;21 - 00;25;41;14
Speaker 2
I no further pain this winter. They don't own a thing. They got no coats, no possessions. Wherever they go, that's all they've got.

00;25;41;17 - 00;26;03;04
Speaker 1
It really is. And the humans just, boy, they get, you know, they get real connected to things that don't really matter in their lives and aren't fulfilling. And I believe that also that kind of, you know, the aura that people put themselves into with that it then fuels where their lives are unfulfilled. Right.

00;26;03;07 - 00;26;20;15
Speaker 2
It's a false it's a false thing because your life some feel because you're comparing it to something you saw on television. If you lived in your own life, a good day would be a good day compared to what yesterday was not compared to someone else's day, someone traveling the world. And you're still at home now. If you wanted to travel the world, really, you do it.

00;26;20;17 - 00;26;28;03
Speaker 2
You just do it. It will come from you and you do it. Maybe you get the idea from someone else, but you don't want to chase the Joneses all week long, but you feel obligated to.

00;26;28;07 - 00;26;53;05
Speaker 1
These types of distractions that are out there where you get sucked in to watching. It's not just to pick on the news, but any kind of show that really has no value, in my opinion, or substance or fulfillment. You know, I believe that that gives humans human beings to lose the value of time. Right. Our number one commodity and I don't know that a lot of people really realize that that it actually that people say that.

00;26;53;07 - 00;27;12;02
Speaker 1
But there's a there's a sink in that man this time. And what we have, it's finite and. Right. And we're limited here and we don't know when it's going to happen. I mean, realistically and logically, most people are probably going to live until their seventies, you know, if they live a decently healthy life and whatnot. But there still could be that random accident where are.

00;27;12;04 - 00;27;32;29
Speaker 1
All right. So why waste it on things? You talked about getting on nature and whatnot. Yeah, that's just there's nothing like doing that and getting out in nature instead of sitting in front of like I actually had a person I knew well years ago. And this particular person said to me one time and I asked, like, come out of camping or come hiking or, you know, goes.

00;27;33;01 - 00;27;51;16
Speaker 1
And they literally in an almost in a rage, I don't like hiking. I don't like to be outdoors. I want to sit on my couch or watch sports in The Simpsons or some show or daytime soap opera or something, you know, and and and that's that's a sad way, in my opinion, to think, because there's nothing wrong with wanting to watch a football game or a show right.

00;27;51;19 - 00;27;53;19
Speaker 1
I'm in and have that consume your life.

00;27;53;21 - 00;27;54;09
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;27;54;12 - 00;27;55;19
Speaker 1
And so.

00;27;55;21 - 00;28;16;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that's true. I think it's a shame when people don't realize that the like you said, the most important asset people have is time and they're always living outside the present moment, like thinking about the future. Someday I'm going to be here someday instead of like, right now is a good time is right now. Make now a good time.

00;28;16;08 - 00;28;35;24
Speaker 2
Just being present in the moment. Like when you meditate, you present, you feel right now I feel alive right now I don't have And I heard someone say depression is about the past and worrying is about the future. And neither one of them exist except in your head. So there are people who have this baggage that they take from their past and they put it in front of them.

00;28;35;24 - 00;28;56;08
Speaker 2
And then you're one of their future with baggage from the past. And when that didn't really exist. Now you can't erase the past, but you've got now to go forward a different direction then. I think if people lived more in the now, which is tough, it's a tough thing to do. It's a tough thing to shut out when you got Uncle Sam and you got the bills and everything, you think you got old, you got stuff and you got to take care of a family.

00;28;56;14 - 00;29;14;14
Speaker 2
Life gets complicated as you get older. It's complicated enough without bringing stuff into it that you don't need that media and it can bring it into your life that you don't really need right now. I think a lot of the reason people are depressed, I think that could be a large part of it is not helping. Comparing your life to someone else.

00;29;14;19 - 00;29;35;09
Speaker 2
If you could just be happy and side with where you are now. See, here's the thing I found fascinating. There was a guy on Tik Tok. A few people have done this where they do the data on what it's like to be alive now dangerous, wise and how safe it is. And they're in the data shows this is the safest time to ever be alive.

00;29;35;11 - 00;29;56;06
Speaker 2
There are more conveniences. People aren't dying like they used to be. The world wars aren't really happening. There's no famine. The technology makes our lives comfortable. And I think that comfort level is making us want like it's too comfortable, almost like you're just seeking out something like you can't appreciate the time you're in now. No one's ever had less worries than the humans that are alive on this earth right now.

00;29;56;11 - 00;30;02;10
Speaker 2
The majority of us, we've got it better than we think, but we're ruining it because we're comparing it to something that's not real.

00;30;02;12 - 00;30;39;17
Speaker 1
Well, then, when you have a life without challenges like that and you get to console, that's why you tend to get into things that don't really matter, right? The subject matters of social inequalities or events or whatnot that, you know, and political and but when you say about, you know, what do you say about living in the worry of the past or the oppression of the past and the worry about the future, it's you can Jim Roe and the unbelievable life coach who is actually a Tony Robbins mentor, but he had a quote that said, you know, you might not be able to change your future right now.

00;30;39;17 - 00;30;58;25
Speaker 1
This can kind of help with the worry. But he's like, you can change the direction or change the direction you are right now. All right. If you're worried about not getting somewhere, you can change the direction and that But that starts with living in the present moment. And it's not that we don't want to. We want to live a life without challenges.

00;30;58;27 - 00;31;16;18
Speaker 1
It's that how you handle this, right? What you just said with the worry and the depression of what happened in the past and the worry about the future, like you can control to not think about that. So that doesn't mean you want to live in a challenging life, that the life that life should have challenges because you can't grow without that.

00;31;16;18 - 00;31;39;29
Speaker 1
You can't grow in uncomfortable situations. I mean, Kobe Bryant was one who he loved to be put in uncomfortable situations as much, right. That forced himself into. That's why you write such a rigorous training, because he said, then when I'm in the present moment, I can handle it smoothly. I was like an orchestra. All right. And so that's that's kind of.

00;31;39;29 - 00;32;04;18
Speaker 2
Where that's where I think people I think that's where there's a mix of things coming almost like a perfect storm of how you think about the media and where people think. And we're worried about the future and we're we're depressed about the past and we're we're focused we're not focused on now. I think in that problem is what's making us I think because we're too comfortable almost like there are days where I'll take jobs as a freelancer, as an independent contractor.

00;32;04;24 - 00;32;18;18
Speaker 2
I'm not working the same job every day. So there are opportunities where I can take jobs or not, and there are jobs I really don't want to do. Maybe it's an outdoor job, it's cold out, it's freezing. I don't want to do this job, but I will take it. Maybe it's I got to get there at 3:00 in the morning and it's it's freezing or it's a long trip.

00;32;18;18 - 00;32;36;28
Speaker 2
I don't like doing this. I will do that because it's days like that that I get through that. I hate to make me appreciate days off. It's it's when I was in Louisiana and it was in New Orleans in the French Quarter and I looked at had a rental car and I was looking for the temperature because it was hot.

00;32;37;00 - 00;32;56;26
Speaker 2
And I'm thinking there's got to be a temperature gauge on this car. But what what I thought was the odometer was the temperature gauge. It was 111 degrees. I'm thinking this is horrible. And people are like, yeah, it's like this all the time. Like, I used to hate winter, but now winter helps me appreciate a nice summer day, you know, because I like variety.

00;32;56;29 - 00;33;13;19
Speaker 2
I like to get through winter because in the summer, after going through that winter, I'm in the moment. I'm in the present moment. Like this weather is not going to last. You know, I can see the stars. I'm outside without a jacket. This is not going to last. But I would not be appreciating that if it wasn't for the bad winters that I went through to earn that.

00;33;13;22 - 00;33;38;24
Speaker 2
So now it's a comparison. Without good there's no bad. Without bad is no good. You need both but a balance of them. But don't avoid. I know people who retire and die because they just no challenges in their life. So I think when when challenges happen and you're not living comfortable, you don't look for problems. If you're if you're comfortable, you're not you're almost not comfortable because everything is so easy.

00;33;38;26 - 00;33;51;13
Speaker 2
And you you want to hear more bad news because it's somehow it gets your blood flowing and staying comfortable just makes you it's like, what do they say about idle hands or the devil's work or something like that? Because you're comfortable. You're just you got to get into trouble.

00;33;51;15 - 00;34;10;11
Speaker 1
There. There is no growth when you're in a comfort zone. No, you know, it's kind of like, I believe that story of the alligator, you know, the best time to hunt alligators after he eats, right? He's full and he's slow and lethargic and comfortable. But when he's not as fast as can be, I think lions are like, yeah, yeah.

00;34;10;14 - 00;34;35;23
Speaker 1
Especially after meal. I'd say like late or lazy. They're they're, they're full and they can get snuck up on easy because they're full in their comfort zone. But you know you kind of touch on retirement and whatnot and that's another I had I literally saw an old friend that I knew from my previous gym that I worked out with and where she's a few years older.

00;34;35;28 - 00;34;52;12
Speaker 1
But we talked about retirement. I don't know how I got into the conversation yesterday after not seeing her for four years some of the time, like retirement. And I said, she's like, I'm not going to retire. She's like my doctor. So I thought I was her doctor. Somebody said, Why aren't you going to retire? You know? And she said, Because she's 70 or 71.

00;34;52;14 - 00;34;54;04
Speaker 1
If I'm going to retire, you know, like.

00;34;54;07 - 00;35;15;08
Speaker 2
That's an industrial revolution thing. But like retiring, like where did that come about? Like if you I think if you're looking forward retirement, you hate what you do. I mean, why would you why would someone asked me, when am I going to retire? I'm like, there's no I'm retired now. By my definition, this is retired. And if and I'm still going to do this until I until I just hit the end, the finish line followed over.

00;35;15;11 - 00;35;29;02
Speaker 2
There's no reason to get out of this mess. I'm not in a mess I want to get out of. So retiring to me is like I don't see just I see people who've retired, who are my age, who are just little older than me, who are retired, but they may enjoy it, but it's like sitting around all day, man.

00;35;29;07 - 00;35;34;09
Speaker 1
You get unhealthy, it's bad for you in a lot of cases. And I'm saying everybody's like, Yeah, it's unhealthy.

00;35;34;11 - 00;35;37;04
Speaker 2
To be unhealthy for me. I know that I'd be driving me crazy.

00;35;37;11 - 00;35;56;07
Speaker 1
Keep living, you know, and to keep growing. I mean, I know I work with some business colleagues and these folks run multiple companies and they're in their eighties. You know, I've known ones who live into their nineties, like, I'm going to go all the way to the end. There's no way that I'm going to retire because I don't know, like I'll be doing something.

00;35;56;10 - 00;35;57;21
Speaker 2
To drive the wheels right off the car.

00;35;57;21 - 00;36;00;23
Speaker 1
You get up and watch TV, right?

00;36;00;26 - 00;36;04;14
Speaker 2
It would sit with McDonald's and. Yeah, right, right, right, right.

00;36;04;14 - 00;36;29;22
Speaker 1
You drink coffee, right? Bullshit about politics and get mad at each other, right? Or the sports and the people that we don't like or the news in the weather we've just talked about. Yeah. To me, not, you know, life is a journey and you got to continually grow from that. And I believe even in that, that that is like the great New Deal of Franklin Delano Roosevelt or Roosevelt where they came in, where we're going to give everybody this retirement.

00;36;29;22 - 00;36;34;08
Speaker 1
And yeah you work until your Yeah, you go home and you get to watch Jerry Springer.

00;36;34;11 - 00;36;52;28
Speaker 2
Yeah. For me the the journey is the destination or the destination is the journey. So just that's where I want to be. I want to be in the journey and keep going on the journey. But there's no stopping once you've I mean, once you've arrived in LA, now what? You don't learn anything. You don't grow. You're human, you're supposed to grow and learn.

00;36;53;00 - 00;36;57;11
Speaker 2
And I think once the journey is over, you're done. But there's no place to go.

00;36;57;13 - 00;37;19;14
Speaker 1
It's Here was Matthew McConaughey who got interviewed after I think it was Dallas. What was that movie? He was in Dallas Something Club. And it was a it was a controversial movie, but very good. Well done. And I believe it was about a it was based off of based off of a true story where a gentleman who had an AIDS and HIV was really put out in the limelight.

00;37;19;14 - 00;37;41;12
Speaker 1
He was black market selling, I believe, some kind of medicine or whatnot. But long story short, when he won the Oscar for that role, because he did a heck of a job, I mean, he his speech was, you know, have you it was about have you arrived? He's like, no, I have. I guess I guess I always thought like on that 25, I'm going to chase that guy that he said at 45, I'm going to chase him because it doesn't stop.

00;37;41;12 - 00;38;00;04
Speaker 1
I want to keep going because I'm in. The point of what he was trying to say is he was chasing himself always five years ahead not to look ahead and not enjoy the present. But he was like, I don't want his point stories. I didn't want to stop. All right. He wanted to continue to grow and whatnot. But while doing so, enjoying that process, they're out in the present day.

00;38;00;04 - 00;38;02;20
Speaker 1
And so that's kind of in a nutshell. Yeah.

00;38;02;23 - 00;38;06;22
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's a good there's a lot of good topics. There are a lot of good thoughts and.

00;38;06;24 - 00;38;07;20
Speaker 1
I want him to life.

00;38;07;20 - 00;38;23;09
Speaker 2
But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's fascinating to think about that. I hope that brings somebody some perspective. It's going to get me in a lot of trouble with people I used to work in TV, but I don't care. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I think a lot of them agree with me and probably just know they have to do what they got to do.

00;38;23;11 - 00;38;24;00
Speaker 2
So.

00;38;24;02 - 00;38;31;12
Speaker 1
You know, if I had a final thought on that, you know, it's not to discourage anybody that has it because some people do love their 9 to 5 job that they're going to.

00;38;31;14 - 00;38;32;15
Speaker 2
Right? Yeah. I mean.

00;38;32;17 - 00;38;37;17
Speaker 1
At 65 and whatnot, it's not to discourage anything because everybody has a role that I just believe.

00;38;37;19 - 00;38;39;25
Speaker 2
You got to know what's for you. And that's not for me. I know that.

00;38;39;29 - 00;38;46;00
Speaker 1
That's how I feel. It's not for me. I don't want to retire at 65. All my kids, I'll work for another 30 years.

00;38;46;03 - 00;38;49;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. Good conversation. Thanks, Jeremy. You all right?